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  • The Master's Artist is a group blog for writers united by the blood of Christ and a love for language. We come from different backgrounds, have different theological outlooks, and are interested in a wide variety of genres and artforms. The opinions expressed belong to their authors alone -- and you're welcome to share yours.

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October 15, 2007

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Comments

mike duran

Chris, I'm really with you on this. But I have a question: If the Petitioner "...only wants to confess, and through this confession may only hope to persuade," doesn't this still imply a certain type of "certainty" as to the power of confession and the possibility of pardon? In other words, you frown about The Prophet writer, as I do, for their preachiness and certainty. They can't be that sure of everything. Nevertheless, by seeing ourselves as a Petitioner, aren't we still assuming to know something -- namely sin and the path of redemption -- with equal conviction? No doubt, the posture of presentation is different for both the Prophet and the Petioner. But, in the end, isn't the level of "certainty" the same? Thanks so much for this series!

Linda Gilmore

Your last bit really hits me. The Psalms are prayer and resonate with everyone at some time or another. I see myself, hear my own cries to God, in the Psalms. And that's how it is with the best stories.
Thanks for giving me a lot to think about.

Christopher Fisher

Mike,

I don't think the level of certainty is necessarily the same, though I do think every writer will need to be certain of at least a few things before he or she can begin to put words to paper (e.g., where, when, how, or of whom does this story take place?). But it's not so much the absence of certainty that I'm getting at as it is the presence of openess. The Prophet (by which I mean the brand of writer I used to be) can not allow very much if any openess without compromising the validity of his message. This fear may actually be an illusion, only in his head. But whether it is real or not, the message is paramount, so he just can't risk it.

On persuasion, I think there is a big difference between preaching and persuading, and perhaps this is where a lot of the confusion lies in these discussions. I reject outright any claims that all writing preaches on some level. To say this, I think, is to misunderstand the meaning of the word "sermon." But I will concede that all writing is ultimately persuasive. When you get down to it, everything we write for the public is trying to persuade someone to do something. Maybe we only want them to tell their friends about us or buy our next book. Maybe we just want them to forget their problems and laugh for a while. Or think deep thoughts about life and God. Or just keep reading to the end of the story.

The crucial difference, I think is that it's not The Petitioner's main intent to persuade the reader toward any religious decision or conversion. Her main concern is to confess, to make herself understood, and let the reader make of it what he will.

Nicole

"I reject outright any claims that all writing preaches on some level. To say this, I think, is to misunderstand the meaning of the word 'sermon'. But I will concede that all writing is ultimately persuasive."

I fail to see the difference, Chris, especially in light of sermon definition "any discourse or speech". You might choose to apply "sermon" to non-fiction, but by the very nature of your explanation, what you are saying (preaching, pronouncing, persuading) in your writing is I'm NOT preaching to you--I'm merely sharing my soul. To say that writing doesn't somehow "preach" is to say it stands for nothing--including persuading.

The theme of any novel must make a statement of some kind, and one can call it a persuasion if more comfortable with that term.

Christopher Fisher

Nicole,

I can see that you fail to see the difference. If you think a fictional account of fictional characters in a fictional realm is on the same par as a "speech or discourse" then it's obvious we're not even speaking the same language.

I'm sorry I can't seem to make my point of view more clear to you. And I'm sorry you think that my effort at art "stands for nothing."

Nicole

Chris, your effort at art of course stands for something, and it's very obvious you're articulate and talented. I know my opinion frustrates you, and I apologize for that. I guess it's semantics. Fiction has to come from a place of honesty--which you explained perfectly. You obviously favor yourself as a possible persuader and somehow condemn yourself as a "prophet"-type writer.

Christopher Fisher

Nicole,

Your opinion does not frustrate me at all, and you're completely entitled to it. Don't apologize. If there's any frustration on my end, it's in my seeming inability to "persuade" you that the theme of a piece of fiction is not quite the same thing as the message of a sermon. Perhaps they're related somehow, maybe even first cousins. But it's my view that they are not quite the same creature, and trying to employ these two animals interchangeably will only make for bad stories and bad sermons.

dayle

Chris, I don't see any "Christian value" to the non-believer in bearing your doubts and not at least pointing toward the answer that you yourself have found.

Maybe I'm not reading the older CBA stuff, but the closest to "prophet" Christian Fiction I've read shows Christian characters with flaws, struggling through the consequences of doubt and disobedience. This connects with the Christian reader who can identify with those struggles and gives the non-Christian reader the only answer which is "the way, truth, and the life" of Jesus Christ.

I mainly see a blend of the two types you're speaking of. And, even if I agreed with you, I would see no reason to want to do away with the "prophet" writer.

Jeanne Damoff

I like what you've said here, Chris. I do believe the struggle leads to answers--real, solid, take-it-to-the-bank answers. But, no matter how deep our roots go, we still "see through a glass darkly." If our God is no bigger than our understanding of Him, we deserve the world's mockery. So, I like the idea of The Petitioner--of approaching writing like we approach prayer. Humble. Searching. Teachable. Walking beside a reader, not standing above her.

Good word. Thanks.

Christopher Fisher

Dayle,

Thanks for stopping by. Your comments bring to my mind a couple of interesting questions, and perhaps this is what's really at the heart of the debate. First, can fiction have any real "Christian value" without having explicit value to the non-believer? This is just my opinion, but I think so. Definitely. And if it is so, it brings up a second question: Should we be making a distinction between just plain "Christian fiction" and "evangelical fiction?" I don't know. But maybe.

As for the CBA stuff. I don't read it at all, and I haven't for years. But I have found it interesting throughout this discussion that so many people in this forum seem to assume The Prophet is a veiled reference to CBA authors. I've tried to make it pretty clear that I'm referring to myself and the approach I once took to writing. Sure, there are others out there who take the same approach, and that's fine if that's their thing. But my criticisms here are my own.

As I said in my previous post, I'm not advocating doing away with The Prophet all together (though I do seriously question his effectiveness in the realm of fiction). It's a big Body we're a part of, and I'm sure this kind of writer has his place. It's just not on my hard drive.

Thanks again for the comments.

Michelle Pendergrass

"So, am I saying we as Christian writers should use our writing not to lay out the certain and true road to salvation, but to lay bare all our doubts and uncertainties, our pain and our fears?"

This rings true for me.

When I first starting learning about the beauty that comes from ashes (for lack of a better phrase) I didn't really understand the complexity. Church people talked about giving your best, the first fruits, which I don't deny is right, but they didn't talk about what to do with the leftovers. God isn't asking for the best 10% of me, he's asking for all of me and that includes doubts, uncertainties, pain, and fear.

Laying bad experiences on the alter have changed my soul more than giving the best of me ever will.

There are some friends that only know the cheerful, strong, determined, public Michelle. There are less than a handful that know the Michelle that is broken, incapable of decision, fearful, and weak.

There are books both examples. Books that skim doubt, disobedience, character flaws, etc... but when reading, you can tell they're skimming. Those are not books that will change me. Those are books I won't finish.

The books I want to read are the ones that trust me with the whole story. Those are the kind I want to write.

dayle

Thanks, Chris.

That was my inference - that you were speaking of mainstream CBA writers. It sounded to me like you were criticizing the current state of Christian Fiction.

Of course, that can't be, since you say you haven't read any.

You said: "First, can fiction have any real "Christian value" without having explicit value to the non-believer? This is just my opinion, but I think so."

Of course, it can. In fact, I believe the potential of Christian fiction as an evangelical outreach is overestimated. But a non-believer who reads Christian Fiction should see Christianity. Otherwise, why would we call it Christian fiction.

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